Comments on: Buddha the Internet Marketer http://sashen.com/blog/93/buddha-the-internet-marketer/ Investigations on the Psycho-Spiritual Life Tue, 06 Jan 2009 21:24:05 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 By: sashen http://sashen.com/blog/93/buddha-the-internet-marketer/#comment-33029 sashen Mon, 15 Sep 2008 15:29:11 +0000 http://sashen.com/blog/?p=93#comment-33029 Hey Ron... I wasn't saying anything about "enlightenment," per se. Just pointing out two things: 1) How Buddhism and Internet Marketers use the same "If *I* can do it, so can you!" sales pitch (among others) and; 2) How flimsy that logic is, given the myriad factors that lead to the teachers seeming accomplishments I think that, especially in the West, we love the idea that hard work and effort make anything possible. But when we look closely, that notion doesn't hold a lot of water. Safa... welcome to the blog... I don't know much about what's going on overseas with Sufi teachers. Perhaps you could let us know. And, Ellen, thanks for the applause ;-) Hey Ron… I wasn’t saying anything about “enlightenment,” per se. Just pointing out two things:

1) How Buddhism and Internet Marketers use the same “If *I* can do it, so can you!” sales pitch (among others) and;
2) How flimsy that logic is, given the myriad factors that lead to the teachers seeming accomplishments

I think that, especially in the West, we love the idea that hard work and effort make anything possible. But when we look closely, that notion doesn’t hold a lot of water.

Safa… welcome to the blog… I don’t know much about what’s going on overseas with Sufi teachers. Perhaps you could let us know.

And, Ellen, thanks for the applause ;-)

]]> By: ellen http://sashen.com/blog/93/buddha-the-internet-marketer/#comment-33027 ellen Mon, 15 Sep 2008 14:21:16 +0000 http://sashen.com/blog/?p=93#comment-33027 Ron, I haven't been around the last four or five thousand years so I can't say. I am confident that marketing strategies have been in use to sell everything, including ideas, ideologies, spiritual belief systems and the notion of enlightenment for as long as humans have been playing with thought and the utterly compelling notion of impressing and dominating others. Speaking from my own experience, the only experience that I can speak from, I have noticed that the use of these strategies grows ever more sophisticated and widespread, to the point where my employer considers it ethical to enforce my attendance at a seminar so that I may be subjected to these methods without my consent. This is not too big a deal were it not for the fact that these very effective hypnotic techniques are also being used, without informed consent, by every shade of politician and media pundit--because they work so well---to bypass critical thought and to implant confusion and new beliefs in their captive audiences. I find the prospect of an increasingly confused populace of true believers-- in any ideolgy--scary in the extreme. I applaud and support anyone who encourages critical thinking and I admire 'roshi' Sashen for providing the tools for others to expand their capacity for critical thought. (Roshi just means 'old man', one who might know a bit from his experience and is willing to pass it on for others to then test the validity in their own lives--I am not suggesting Steven is enlightened or any such nonsense, I do not know him, nor will I ever know, for sure, what is in his head and heart.) Ron,
I haven’t been around the last four or five thousand years so I can’t say. I am confident that marketing strategies have been in use to sell everything, including ideas, ideologies, spiritual belief systems and the notion of enlightenment for as long as humans have been playing with thought and the utterly compelling notion of impressing and dominating others.
Speaking from my own experience, the only experience that I can speak from, I have noticed that the use of these strategies grows ever more sophisticated and widespread, to the point where my employer considers it ethical to enforce my attendance at a seminar so that I may be subjected to these methods without my consent. This is not too big a deal were it not for the fact that these very effective hypnotic techniques are also being used, without informed consent, by every shade of politician and media pundit–because they work so well—to bypass critical thought and to implant confusion and new beliefs in their captive audiences. I find the prospect of an increasingly confused populace of true believers– in any ideolgy–scary in the extreme.
I applaud and support anyone who encourages critical thinking and I admire ‘roshi’ Sashen for providing the tools for others to expand their capacity for critical thought.
(Roshi just means ‘old man’, one who might know a bit from his experience and is willing to pass it on for others to then test the validity in their own lives–I am not suggesting Steven is enlightened or any such nonsense, I do not know him, nor will I ever know, for sure, what is in his head and heart.)

]]> By: Safa http://sashen.com/blog/93/buddha-the-internet-marketer/#comment-33021 Safa Mon, 15 Sep 2008 10:42:59 +0000 http://sashen.com/blog/?p=93#comment-33021 Glad to have stumbled upon your Lovely blog; fantabulous revelations! I wonder what you think about the Sufi biz, too. I mean the self-appointed guru masters mushrooming the overseas markets! As for Buddhism, so for Sufism!? Glad to have stumbled upon your Lovely blog; fantabulous revelations!
I wonder what you think about the Sufi biz, too. I mean the self-appointed guru masters mushrooming the overseas markets!
As for Buddhism, so for Sufism!?

]]> By: Ron Grubaugh http://sashen.com/blog/93/buddha-the-internet-marketer/#comment-33014 Ron Grubaugh Mon, 15 Sep 2008 04:18:56 +0000 http://sashen.com/blog/?p=93#comment-33014 Hi Steven, Your comments on dishonesty in marketing in our society are well received. Actually, they would be well received if they were about the marketing of pretty much anything. But I have no clue what you are saying about enlightenment (admittedly, I am a little slow sometimes). And I am truly interested. You could be saying that there is no such thing. It also seems like you might be saying that it is entirely a function of some innate abilities. I’d never considered anything like that. The fact that there is any discussion of enlightenment would have to mean that some portion of the lucky few who possessed these abilities failed to notice that arrangement. You could also be saying that it is completely random and unpredictable invalidating only the discussions of methodology. Or it could just be about the Buddha (I’m not too fond of some of his ideas myself). It seems like an earlier post was somewhat similar. I’d really like to know where you’re coming from. Signed: “Interested” (or perhaps I’m just confused) P.S…ellen. In reference to mind control strategies, I am wondering what in the world you mean by “these days.” Could ‘these days’ perchance refer to the last four or five thousand years? Hi Steven,
Your comments on dishonesty in marketing in our society are well received. Actually, they would be well received if they were about the marketing of pretty much anything. But I have no clue what you are saying about enlightenment (admittedly, I am a little slow sometimes). And I am truly interested. You could be saying that there is no such thing.

It also seems like you might be saying that it is entirely a function of some innate abilities. I’d never considered anything like that. The fact that there is any discussion of enlightenment would have to mean that some portion of the lucky few who possessed these abilities failed to notice that arrangement.

You could also be saying that it is completely random and unpredictable invalidating only the discussions of methodology. Or it could just be about the Buddha (I’m not too fond of some of his ideas myself). It seems like an earlier post was somewhat similar. I’d really like to know where you’re coming from.

Signed: “Interested”

(or perhaps I’m just confused)

P.S…ellen. In reference to mind control strategies, I am wondering what in the world you mean by “these days.” Could ‘these days’ perchance refer to the last four or five thousand years?

]]> By: ellen http://sashen.com/blog/93/buddha-the-internet-marketer/#comment-32911 ellen Thu, 11 Sep 2008 20:05:33 +0000 http://sashen.com/blog/?p=93#comment-32911 Oh go on, enjoy the mushrooms. You could try my new mantra out while you munch: 'The situation is hopeless, but not serious.' ----Shamelessly stolen from one Dr Paul Watzlawick. ellen Oh go on, enjoy the mushrooms. You could try my new mantra out while you munch: ‘The situation is hopeless, but not serious.’ —-Shamelessly stolen from one Dr Paul Watzlawick.
ellen

]]> By: sashen http://sashen.com/blog/93/buddha-the-internet-marketer/#comment-32910 sashen Thu, 11 Sep 2008 18:40:36 +0000 http://sashen.com/blog/?p=93#comment-32910 Hey Glen, Welcome... and enjoy. Of course, I was planning on having a lunch that included lots of mushrooms... now I'm not so sure that's a good idea ;-) Hey Glen,

Welcome… and enjoy.

Of course, I was planning on having a lunch that included lots of mushrooms… now I’m not so sure that’s a good idea ;-)

]]> By: ZenGlen http://sashen.com/blog/93/buddha-the-internet-marketer/#comment-32907 ZenGlen Thu, 11 Sep 2008 17:17:48 +0000 http://sashen.com/blog/?p=93#comment-32907 I'm gonna make believe it was the mushrooms. Sure did give me a laugh. Thanks for a great post Steven. I remember talking with you several months ago about this same thing. Glad you turned me on to your blog. Judging from the titles of some of your posts, this looks like a fun place to play. Cheers. I’m gonna make believe it was the mushrooms. Sure did give me a laugh. Thanks for a great post Steven. I remember talking with you several months ago about this same thing.

Glad you turned me on to your blog. Judging from the titles of some of your posts, this looks like a fun place to play.

Cheers.

]]> By: ellen http://sashen.com/blog/93/buddha-the-internet-marketer/#comment-32906 ellen Thu, 11 Sep 2008 15:13:02 +0000 http://sashen.com/blog/?p=93#comment-32906 Pork? Mushrooms? Who knows? Pork? Mushrooms? Who knows?

]]> By: sashen http://sashen.com/blog/93/buddha-the-internet-marketer/#comment-32903 sashen Thu, 11 Sep 2008 12:50:13 +0000 http://sashen.com/blog/?p=93#comment-32903 I thought it was the pork that got him. And, yes, "caveat emptor" is a great mantra. I thought it was the pork that got him.

And, yes, “caveat emptor” is a great mantra.

]]> By: ellen http://sashen.com/blog/93/buddha-the-internet-marketer/#comment-32897 ellen Thu, 11 Sep 2008 11:37:46 +0000 http://sashen.com/blog/?p=93#comment-32897 You've got me thinking now about all I gained from the whole zen obssession. One of the things I learned was to not torture myself with thoughts of what might have been had the mythical coin tossing directed me down Joe Karbo's path. I didn't toss the coin, I made a choice based on the whole of my life experience to that date--you could say that the choice was made for me as it was not a rational thinking-out, weighing up the pros and cons type of choice---but it was still my choice. I think now that I was lucky also in my 'choice?' of first teacher, a Korean of the old school who taught me for a couple of years and then unceremoniously booted me out to continue on my own. I was miffed for a while at being slung out of the nest but have come to see (particularly after hearing other tales of bondage to the guru) that as a huge gift. Growing up at last, I guess. I was at a mandatory work seminar recently and was able to immediately spot the hypnotic tactics in use to bypass the critical mind-standard practice it seems these days-because I had encountered these in so many 'spiritual' situations before and, after being taken in so often, had then done some investigation. I guess the admonition 'Buyer Beware' holds in religious/spiritual matters just as in any commercial transaction. ellen You’ve got me thinking now about all I gained from the whole zen obssession. One of the things I learned was to not torture myself with thoughts of what might have been had the mythical coin tossing directed me down Joe Karbo’s path. I didn’t toss the coin, I made a choice based on the whole of my life experience to that date–you could say that the choice was made for me as it was not a rational thinking-out, weighing up the pros and cons type of choice—but it was still my choice.
I think now that I was lucky also in my ‘choice?’ of first teacher, a Korean of the old school who taught me for a couple of years and then unceremoniously booted me out to continue on my own. I was miffed for a while at being slung out of the nest but have come to see (particularly after hearing other tales of bondage to the guru) that as a huge gift. Growing up at last, I guess.
I was at a mandatory work seminar recently and was able to immediately spot the hypnotic tactics in use to bypass the critical mind-standard practice it seems these days-because I had encountered these in so many ’spiritual’ situations before and, after being taken in so often, had then done some investigation.
I guess the admonition ‘Buyer Beware’ holds in religious/spiritual matters just as in any commercial transaction.
ellen

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